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CRC funded reports
Focus group results
published in:
Family violence : young people and youth sector workers, informing government about the implementation of mandatory reporting in Victoria
Danny Sandor and Julian Bondy
ISBN 07311 0575 3
Fitzroy, Vic. : Youth Affairs Council of Victoria, 1995
Criminology Research Council grant ; (15/93-4)
October 1995
1. Introduction
This section presents the results of the focus groups with young people. These consultations focussed on areas outlined in chapter on methodology:
- their knowledge regarding mandatory reporting laws and their sources of knowledge;
- their perceptions regarding how the system will impact on disclosures;
- their suggestions for disseminating information about the new system; and
- their recommendations for the operation of the mandatory reporting system;
The final data set consisted of a total of 23 focus groups:
Ten general groups:
- 7 Metropolitan groups: Broadmeadows, Doncaster, Footscray, Knox, Richmond, Springvale, St.Kilda. (71 young people.)
- 3 Rural groups: Bendigo, Leongatha, Swan Hill. (27 young people.)
Thirteen targeted groups:
- 6 Male groups:
- 3 Metropolitan groups: Kensington, Parkville, Reservoir (16 young people)
- 3 Rural groups: Bendigo, Geelong, Traralgon (16 young people)
- 6 Female groups:
- 4 Metropolitan groups: Ascot Vale, Burwood, Fitzroy, Parkville (17 young people)
- 2 Rural groups: Bendigo, Geelong (6 young people)
Note: The Parkville male and female targeted groups comprised young people from around Victoria held in a central institution, either as protective clients on remand for an alleged offence or undergoing a custodial sentence (Youth Residential Order or Youth Training Centre Detention) after conviction for an offence.
1 mixed Metropolitan group:
- Noble Park (5 males 5 females) (10 young people)
Total of all sample groups: (163 young people.)
The results of these focus groups are presented in different sections according to the patterns of emergent themes from the focus groups. The basic unit of measurement for the computer program was the 'text unit', which is simply a single statement, made by one participant, therefore text units can be any length and provide a variable amount of information, ie. from a single word response to a 10 line statement.
Passages of discussion along emergent themes were indexed. The data analysis program used allowed any piece of text to be indexed numerous times, so that the same piece of text could arise in a number of different text searches, depending on the content of that particular passage. We have endeavoured to avoid repeating quotes in this report.
References to Focus Groups
Each quote from focus groups identifies the source. The following nomenclature is used:
- T = Targeted Focus Group.
- G = General Focus Group.
- M = Male Group.
- F = Female Group.
By circumstance rather than design, Noble Park was a mixed gender targeted group and has "T Mixed" as its identifier.
2. Young people's knowledge of mandatory reporting laws
Knowledge
- Researcher: Who's heard of mandatory reporting?
- NO RESPONSE
- Researcher: Any idea what it might be?
- Mandatory, that's people going around and talking to people. (Geelong TM)
Young people were questioned about their knowledge of mandatory reporting laws, and the child and adolescent protection system. Participants were then asked to comment on their sources of such knowledge.
Four groups responded that they had not heard of mandatory reporting. Three of these were male targeted groups comprising young people with direct experience of protective intervention
For the remaining groups, young people were more likely to provide incorrect statements regarding mandatory reporting than to provide correct statements. Most groups had something to say about their knowledge of mandatory reporting laws, although it seemed that participants sometimes had a guess which was based on an incorrect undestanding.
General rural groups were most likely to have incorrect understandings of mandatory reporting laws. Targeted female focus groups were more likely to have a general idea of mandatory reporting laws, than targeted male focus groups.
Completely correct understandings were not apparent in any group. A mix of understandings was typical.
- Researcher: Does anybody know about Mandatory Reporting?
- No.
- Yep.
- Researcher: Yeah, what do you know?
- Well I've been told it's like, like if teachers and doctors or anyone sees like bruising or like any signs of abuse on anyone they should report it.
- CANNOT HEAR
- ... .... kids from the age of zero to thirteen or something.
- No, it's longer than that.
- Researcher: Yeah, what do you think?
- I reckon it's women too.
- Sixteen.
- I don't know, it's all women ... ...(Ascot Vale TF)
"Correct" remarks indicated a general correct idea about the intent and scope of the laws.
- Is this like a rule that's giving the right for doctors all that to state that children are being abused? (Traralgon TM)
- Researcher: Has anyone else heard about it?
- Yeah, my principal from my school told a friend and she told me, so that's how I found out about it.
- Researcher: What do you know about it?
- That teachers, counsellors and doctors are supposed to report it to police if they suspect anything going on.
- Researcher: What do they have to report?
- If they think someone is being abused. Like a child's being abused or something. (Geelong TF)
- I just heard that if someone went to a doctor or a worker, a community services worker, and told them something about happened like rape or something, then the doctors or whoever are obliged to tell the police and report it or they get charged or something. (Fitzroy, TF)
- All the teachers ... ... if any children are bruised really badly they have to report that straight away and it doesn't matter if it was through an accident or they don't know how they got it but they still have to report them anyway. If they see kids with bruises and that kind of thing. (Bendigo G)
- Researcher: Do you know which kinds of abuse are going to be mandated?
- Child and sexual, I mean physical and sexual. (Footscray G)
- Researcher: Do you know which professional groups like doctors, teachers have to report?
- Doctors, social workers, youth workers, teachers. (Springvale G)
- Researcher: Who knows who has to report abuse or who is going to be mandated to report abuse?
- Doctors.
- Social Workers.
- Youth workers.
- Parents.
- Researcher: Do you know who has been mandated already?
- Doctors. (St Kilda G)
Where young people could identify physical and sexual abuse as types of harm that gave rise to mandatory reporting, it was not uncommon for them to assume that emotional and "mental" abuse was within the ambit of mandatory reporting.
- Researcher: Do you know which sort of abuse is going to be mandated? Do you know...
- Sexual abuse, physical, psychological or mental.
- Researcher: Anybody else know anything about mandatory reporting? Nothing? Do you?
- No. Not really.(Broadmeadows G)
- Researcher: Who knows about mandatory reporting and what can you tell me about it?
- To report abuse at home, it's also abuse emotional physical sexual - that sort of abuse. Emotional is not just physical, it's verbal and sexual as well. (St Kilda G)
- Researcher: Do you know which sorts of abuse have to be reported? When the new law...
- Rape.
- Researcher: Or what other kinds of abuse that might be included?
- Sexual or emotional abuse. (Fitzroy, TF)
- Researcher: Have you heard about mandatory reporting?
- Yes is that if abuse happens or something?
- Researcher: What sort of abuse?
- Violence, sexual, emotional. (Bendigo TF)
It was evident in a number of groups that participants were aware of general community awareness campaigns to encourage reporting by the general public and associated this with mandatory reporting.
- Researcher: Yeah, what have you heard about it?
- Not much, just that it's, if you find a case of child abuse or whatever it's mandatory to report it to your doctor or social worker or whatever.
- Researcher: Does anyone else know who else might be mandated?
- Head of state. (Broadmeadows G)
- I thought mandatory reporting was that everybody had to report abuse of some sort.
- Researcher: Like including...?
- Just everyone, your neighbours, you know. (Reservoir TM)
- Researcher: Did they give you any information of anything on it?
- Just like what L... said, if we seen anyone with bruising or whatever we have to report that.
- And mental as well, like we can't say anything to another kid in our class about their race or physical looks or anything like that because that would be reported to a teacher straight away as well and anyone who has done that will get into trouble. (Bendigo G)
- Researcher: How much do you actually know about it, who's ...
- Any person of power or authority like a teacher or a parent or anything like that has an inkling or a thought of violence or harassment against anybody they have to report it. There's a thousand dollar fine.
- Researcher: Who's going to be mandated. Do you know, which professional groups?
- Basically anybody that has anything to do with children, young adults.
- Researcher: Do you know what age group of young people?
- From birth to sixteen or eighteen. (Knox G)
Access to information
Mandatory reporting laws were explained to group participants at the next stage of the focus group. Explanations often had to be repeated.
Participants were asked to comment on young people's most likely source of information about mandatory reporting.
Only a small number commented on receiving information specifically about mandatory reporting laws. It appeared that mandatory reporting laws had not been much discussed with young people in schools. Young people generally had little to say about their experience of receiving information regarding mandatory reporting laws. Mentioned sources were schools and, for targeted groups, workers within the protective system, but references to them were few.
- A teacher, we did it at school. They told us at school. ...
- Our teacher told the whole class about it. (Bendigo G)
- Researcher: Has anyone heard about mandatory reporting, the new law I was talking about before?
- Yeah, I have.
- Researcher: What have you heard about it?
- Off my friend at school. She just said that her dad was saying that, that if you tell...teachers and that, that if they don't go to some law, something like the police, that they can get fined. that's what I've heard about it. (Fitzroy TF)
- Researcher: Has any one heard about mandatory reporting?
- I got told from one of the workers that I speak to
- Researcher: What was that about?
- About the new law or something. I couldn't tell that much because I wasn't taking too much notice.
- Researcher: Has anyone else heard about it?
- Yeah, my principal from my school told a friend and she told me, so that's how I found out about it. (Geelong TF)
Participants commented on the lack of information they had received and the difficulty of asking for information from adults and other professionals. To the extent that they had received information, young people mentioned the significance of their social networks with young people for receiving information. However, the information exchanged between young people was not always accurate.
- I don't think school counsellors will [be mandated] because that would be confidential between them and the students. That's all we got told. (Bendigo G)
- See we don't really get taught at school ; it's always like, more like gossip from friends of what's happened than actual - like people from the government coming talking to us about what's been happening, of how they're working. ...
- They don't tell us, like we just get it from friends and that's all the bad side and we never really hear the good side, so we don't know, we've always got the one sided opinion because that's all we hear.
- Researcher: Do you think there's a good side?
- There has to be like a bad side and a good side but we just never get to know about the good side. (St. Kilda G.)
- You hear it on the news but it's really vague. You only hear it for a split second and then it's gone. We don't read any material on it, people don't speak to us about it, so how are we suppose to know about it?
- Not unless you have a friend that is really involved in abuses like that then you get into it, like into the issue; other than that you don't have to care about it. (Doncaster G)
- They don't tell us anything unless we have a problem, unless you ask for it.
- Half the kids are to embarrassed to go and talk to welfare or something most of the time they wouldn't go talk to the welfare.
- Like the only avenue of finding information is through the welfare so if the kids are too embarrassed or don't want to go see welfare, then they don't know, they just leave it. (Springvale G)
- [They] bring it in without acknowledging the fact that young people don't know about it. Like I don't really know anything about it. (Bendigo G)
3. Young people's perceptions of mandatory reporting
General Comments About Mandatory Reporting
After providing participants with necessary information regarding the new mandatory reporting laws, they were specifically asked the question "what impact do you think mandatory reporting laws will have on young people's relationships with workers". Young people either responded to direct answers to this question, or they provided a general comment on mandatory reporting.
Some responses were clearly weighted against mandatory reporting.
- Researcher: We're interested in what you'd like to say about how this should operate.
- I think it sounds cruel to me. (Geelong TM).
- I mean like, if someone goes to a youth worker or somebody and says you know "I'm being abused" then automatically that person has a legal obligation to go and report it and then that could shake, you know, destroy, that kid's whole sort of world basically. (Doncaster G)
- They will think of it as "youth workers are meant to be there to help not to sort of step in and say I've got control now". (Springvale G).
- I reckon a young person should be asked by the youth worker whether or not they want somebody to know.
- Researcher: Does everybody think that, do you all agree on that?
- Yeah.
- Yes. (Leongatha G)
A mixed response was most common.
- I think it's good and bad. I'm in the middle so I just...
- I reckon you should just try it out and see how it goes. (Geelong TF)
- Perhaps ... some mandatory reporting would be good because then at least something would happen. Maybe find a better place to live. (Knox G)
- Maybe it shouldn't be mandatory, maybe it should be, I mean I know now that at that time they have no right to call anybody because all that was confidential but it's better making that confidential and not making it mandatory they have the right to ring if they think that something's going on. (St Kilda G)
- If it was me and I wanted someone to talk to, I'd talk to my friends but if it was really serious and I wanted something to happen I'd go and talk to someone that could do something.
- Researcher: So you'd only talk to a worker if you wanted something to happen?
- Yeah. (Fitzroy TF)
- Researcher: What about you, what do you think? Do you think it will make it easier or harder?
- Well, I think it will make it harder because it's really up to the person to say it themselves and I think that's a big step in your feeling process when you have to go through something like that and it's up to you to do it, not for anybody else...
- So what if you're too scared though? What if, like what if, all the signs are there right and you're too scared to say anything, then at least somebody knows, if somebody knows what's going on, you're depending on them to tell someone, that's the truth, because that happened in my family. (Geelong TF)
Some responses appeared weighted in favour of mandatory reporting.
- Researcher: What do you think about that mandatory reporting law?
- I think it will turn law actually right, I reckon more people would report more incidents now than ever has been. (Traralgon TM)
- You're trying to figure out whether [mandatory reporting is] worth having.
- Researcher: Yeah, yeah.
- I reckon it is.
- Yeah. Because whether you're getting punched up, just a clip over the ears, or you're getting the shit punched out of you, it doesn't matter, it's still happening and it shouldn't be happening. (Reservoir TM)
- If they're getting abused and stuff, it'll help them.
- It'll be easier for them to report what's going on.
- Researcher: What else do you think it might do? How do you think it'll affect their relationships with workers.
- Probably make it easier, because they can talk to that person.
- Researcher: So you think that ...?
- Well, they'll know that they should talk to somebody about it instead of keeping it bottled up inside or whatever. Yeah, which creates probably more alert, that people will report it next time. By that you can then stop us from the threat of it. (Broadmeadows G)
- Researcher: How do you think mandatory reporting is going to affect young people talking about abuse to workers?
- I think it will probably become more open and the young person really wouldn't think it's their fault as much.
- Yeah. (Geelong TF)
- I think it is better to go to someone who can really help you with your problem that's why I believe, I mean I think mandatory reporting is another good way to prevent things from happening. (Richmond G)
The text suggested that many "positive" remarks about mandatory reporting were in relation to the appropriateness of mandatory reporting for young children but not with respect to adolescents.
- Researcher: Do you think there's any situations where young people should be reported to the department whether they want to or not?
- Yeah.
- Researcher: What sort of situations?
- Child abuse, physical, sexual.
- Researcher: Okay, that's what mandatory reporting is going to do.
- What about teenagers then?
- Let the teenagers think for themselves, they've got to have some decision in their life. (Geelong TM)
- I reckon especially when they get to high school level like year 7 onwards they especially have their own choice 'cause high school gives them more information and freedom, that's where they start thinking for themselves even more than they did in primary school. (Springvale G)
- Researcher: So your basic idea is that mandatory reporting is bad?
- For our age group, yeah.
- Researcher: What age group's that?
- Say from about ten years in our age group, a little older than that maybe onwards. (Geelong TF)
- Researcher: Young people should have a choice you're saying ?
- Because the kid doesn't want someone to butt into their life. You just can't go in and intervene, it's got to be their choice.
- Researcher: What about for smaller children?
- Depends on how old you are. Like if you are only 5 or 6 you don't know what is going on even if your parents bash you or whatever you don't know. (Richmond G)
Some participants suggested there were circumstances were intervention may have to be imposed against the young person's wishes.
- I think people under twelve, they mightn't know to go an tell people and that should be reported. But people over that age they know what they want and if they tell someone that they want it to be kept confidential, that's their right.
- Researcher: Across all those groups?
- Like twelve and up say ...
- Researcher: Are there any situations where you think young people shouldn't have a right, shouldn't have that right?
- What, to choose where they want to go?
- Researcher: To choose whether they should go in the system or not? Do you think that's an absolute right that all children over the age of twelve should be able to decide, given that they've been given accurate information, that they should be able to decide whether or not they want to go through the system?
- I meant the people under twelve should have to go into the system, that's what I'm saying.
- Researcher: Yes, but people over twelve? Is there any time when these people between twelve and sixteen shouldn't be given that opportunity?
- Maybe if they're really, seriously under the influence of some sort of drug. (Bendigo G)
- If they're suicidal, someone else should make the decision for them, they should go to a counsellor or something. (Leongatha G)
- I think there are some circumstances where it has to be like that but then some, if it's really bad, then I think that it does have to be reported because you never know what could happen. (Leongatha G)
- Yeah, I just think the whole thing should be cut out at least for an age group not sixteen. I think the whole thing should be cut out at, at least twelve.
- No, I think it depends on how mature you are.
- Yes.
- Yes.
- All kids are just about mature on that sort of subject though.
- Yeah on that sort of subject, yeah.
- But there's handicapped people that live at home that aren't bad enough to be institutionalised and I suppose if their parents got a bad temper or whatever and they get hit, they're between sixteen or ... teenage and they don't know about then someones got to step in. (Swan Hill G)
Negative statements about mandatory reporting illustrated a number of concerns. Some young people were concerned that mandatory reporting was being implemented without having consulted with young people.
- Yeah. Well I think they've brought this new law in and they haven't spoken to anybody about it, like teenagers, younger children, they've just presumed that this is this law and you have to follow that. (Bendigo G)
- Well, I'm just more concerned about the way that it's going to come across to people that, well when I first heard about this, my first mental image was of, whoever's reporting it going straight to the police and the police going in there and arresting people and doing things like that and I'm, you know, it's obviously not necessarily going to be like that, but ... concern that, that's how it's going to come across to people and therefore they're going to be concerned about talking to a social worker about it. Because they're going to be thinking that's what's going to happen. (Bendigo G)
- If it means ... ... for the community to wake up and see what's really going on in homes. Because child abuse is being reported years down the track, years and years and years back, nothing's been done about it and suddenly the government said - I'm going to make it mandatory - it's just stupid really. (Leongatha G)
- No, I don't think this law will actually work. For a start, kids talk to kids. Kids know a bit more than what kids speak. (Traralgon TM)
More common was a concern that it would lead to silencing young people.
- It may discourage kids from opening up to somebody if they know that there's going to be consequences for it. (Doncaster G)
- Researcher: So how do you think that mandatory reporting will affect young people's trust if they know that they talk to someone?
- It's going to break a lot of trust for a lot of people.
- Researcher: So do you think it will make it harder for young people?
- Yes.
- Well if they feel that they don't want anyone to know about it, well I think it would make things worse.(Fitzroy TF)
- Researcher: So if you could just give me some examples of what you see will be problems?
- People won't be talking about the abuse.
- Researcher: What do you think?
- I think there'd be less reporting it.
- Yeah, I just don't think anyone will tell anyone any more. They won't tell anyone because they don't think they can trust anyone. (Doncaster G)
Participants were asked specifically whether they thought mandatory reporting laws would stop young people from talking to youth workers or other professional workers with young people. Only statements made in 4 groups indicated that young people would be likely to disclose under mandatory reporting laws. In contrast, statements made in 19 groups indicated that they thought young people would not disclose sexual and physical abuse if they knew that a report to the authorities would result.
Statements of young people being unlikely to report abuse under mandatory reporting laws were most evident in general metropolitan focus groups, followed by general rural groups.
Statements reflecting this broad theme fell into several subcategories. Participants explained their perception that young people would not disclose abuse in terms of their fear of involvement in the child and adolescent system:
- With mandatory reporting, you're scared to go and report it for fear of being put in a home or something or whatever. (Broadmeadows G)
- It may discourage kids from opening up to somebody if they know that there's going to be consequences for it. I mean like, if someone goes to a youth worker or somebody and says you know - I'm being abused - then automatically that person has a legal obligation to go and report it and then that could shake you know, destroy that kid's whole sort of world basically. (Doncaster G)
Participants suggested that young people need the opportunity to discuss their problems with workers without this ushering in official involvement:
- They're going to want to have people to talk to but without it going through the system. (Geelong TM)
- If you want it to go further just tell somebody and make them sit there and listen to you and you've got to watch out when you go to court, your dad just sits there and gives you the evil look and shit, it's really scary. (Geelong TM)
- If you're too scared to go because you know something else will happen afterwards, then you would only maybe tell a friend. Because you're too scared it will happen again.
- Maybe it's only the first time that it's happened but maybe you don't think it will happen again, but you still need to tell someone. Well, you don't want to go and tell someone whose going to run and tell the police.
- Sometimes you need to talk to make yourself feel better about it. If you tell someone. (Knox G)
- Consult the young person first, before you do anything else. See what their story is. Just thinking about one of my best friends, when she was really little at primary school, they had to write a story and she said something about her father being a basher or something. It was this game they used to play and the teacher got the completely wrong idea and called up the parents and everything and they had to come in but it never caused any problems like, it's usually cleared up pretty quickly that sort of thing. (Bendigo G)
- Not everyone should be mandated because we need to talk to people who do not have to report. (Bendigo TF)
- I think it's wrong having youth workers mandated because teenagers go to see youth workers to talk it over, to tell someone and in lots of ways, I think teenagers will find it a loss of trust through the youth worker because they would tell the worker and because it's the law, the youth worker will have to tell the police, so I think you'll find that not a lot of kids will go and see youth workers and counsellors and things like that. (Knox G)
- I think that doctors are mandated and I think that teachers should be mandated as well but not youth workers, because for a lot of people, youth workers are the only people that they can go to if they've got problems and to mandate them would be a big mistake, I think. If they did mandate them, who else could they go to, church leaders perhaps but not youth workers. (Knox G)
- Kids are going to lose their trust in the social workers.
- They are not going to be able to talk because it is going to go immediately to legal action. (Springvale G)
- ... ... that finally kids are opening up to you and all the work that they've done to try and help you to be broken apart and you have to tell someone else and then that kids story's everywhere, like everyone knows about it, like police and stuff like that, whose involved. (St Kilda G)
- I mean there removes the possibility of just going and talking to someone about it. Well someone like a social worker. You've got all these implications of what's going to happen when you do go and talk to someone about it, it's just not a simple thing of getting it off your chest. (Bendigo G)
Targeted focus groups alluded to the experience of protective intervention when they suggested that if mandatory reporting had been enacted when they first disclosed they would not have disclosed:
- Researcher: Thinking about your own case or a case with a friend, would Mandatory Reporting laws have stopped you, or your friends from talking about their abuse?
- Yep.
- Yes.
- Yep.
- Researcher: Why would it have stopped you or your friends from doing that?
- NO RESPONSE
- ...you go and tell them and they take you away. (Noble Park TMixed)
- Researcher: Thinking of other people you guys know, would it have made any difference if - would people you know not have talked about their abuse to somebody if they'd thought it was going to the department like mandatory reporting is going to do?
- If I knew it was going straight to the top, to the department, I wouldn't have said anything...
- If I was in that position and I knew what I do now, there's no way I'd have fucking said nothing to these bastards mate, no way. (Parkville TM).
- Well, I think it will make it harder because it's really up to the person to say it themselves and I think that's a big step in your feeling process when you have to go through something like that and it's up to you to do it, not for anybody else. (Geelong TF)
- Researcher: If mandatory reporting had been in place, if you knew that when you had first talked about your abuse, would that have stopped you from talking?
- Yeah.
- Yes.
- With this new rule, nothing would have happened.
- Researcher: Thinking back then, or to whatever circumstances that you're thinking about, what were you afraid of, what would you have been afraid of if the department was going to be involved?
- Well they're going to have a go at you and say that, oh bullshit, you enjoyed it and all this.
- Basically, you report it to them right, they're just going to basically laugh behind you back. Laugh in your face as well.
- Researcher: What do you think other young people you know of who may not be involved with the department, what do you think they would be afraid of?
- From all the shit they get.
- That's how they get on these drugs too.
- If they report something like sexual abuse right, then somebody else finds out then it gets around the whole town then the whole town's on their case. (Traralgon TM)
- Researcher: When you say things like that, when you say to me, "it's shit", what do you mean?
- The way it runs, the people who work in it, the whole system. It just doesn't function properly. (Reservoir TM)
4. Young people's fears about disclosure
- We don't like to talk about what has happened because people look at you differently and are really mean or give you heaps of sympathy. (Burwood TF)
Young people's perceptions of mandatory reporting and the effect it will have appear strongly connected with fears about disclosing abuse. These fears were expressed in several key areas.
Lack of confidentiality at the initial point of disclosure was the most frequently expressed fear. Fears relating to recriminations from family members or further social ramifications resulting from stigmatisation or general ridicule were also apparent. Other fears included a basic fear of abuse of the protective system, and a fear of losing decision making control over the situation. General rural groups expressed fears about disclosures more frequently than other groups.
Confidentiality
- Researcher: How important is it...?
- Like everything that you tell them is confidential and they wont go off...
- Researcher: Is that important? Confidentiality?
- Bloody oath it is, yeah. (Kensington TM).
Fears about a lack of confidentiality were most often expressed in general rural, and female targeted groups. The concern in rural groups stressed "small town gossip".
- Yeah, I'd say so. Because it's like, especially in the country if you say something then it tends to get around really quickly and ...
- Narrow-minded.
- Yeah, exactly.
- Researcher: So you think because it gets around so quick that young people especially in rural areas are a bit more hesitant to speak about abuse?
- And probably also, I don't know ...
- Researcher: Do you think it makes a difference? Do you think it makes a difference where you are?
- Yeah, I'd say also you might have less access to say information about it than [in the city] knowing that what was being done to you was wrong or whatever. (Bendigo G)
- Yeah, personal experience and other people's experience. You don't - it's this big thing - no kid trusts social workers because everybody finds out. There's nothing confidential at all. Nothing. Like a social worker will tell your teachers or the social worker will tell the cops or the social worker will ring up your parents or whatever, there's no confidentiality.
- Researcher: Do you think it's different being in a small country town to the city? Do you think that would happen in the city?
- Yeah, I think so, not as much as the country maybe, but it would still happen.
- Researcher: Do you think it's different being in a small country town to the city?
- Well with the social worker that we we're [with], the whole staff room finds out and I reckon that is really pathetic. (Leongatha G)
- You can't do things without everybody knowing.
- As I said, it's a small town, everyone knows everyone, with the police...(Leongatha G)
- In small towns like this one, it would only take an investigation into child abuse and people will hear what they want to hear; they won't hear if the case was cleared up, there was no...they find no abuse there, then the case was cleared up. People might not take much notice. They'll still look down on the people that were being investigated. I still probably...
- Yeah, even if there was nothing happening, you'd still think...(Swan Hill G)
- If they report something like sexual abuse right, then somebody else finds out then it gets around the whole town then the whole town's on their case. (Traralgon TM)
Targeted female groups tended to focus upon what they saw as the lack of respect for confidentiality among workers and discussions inappropriately within the particpants' earshot.
- I mean they say they're going to give you confidentiality and I know friends who have had their workers talk to other people about them. I mean, I've got a friend who has the same worker as her boyfriend or not the same worker but I mean they talked. She [the worker] sat there and she told him everything about her. And that's confidentiality?
- Researcher: Yeah okay. And you're nodding too. What were you going to say?
- Oh because, she's talking about me. Because I was going out with this guy and we just happened to have the same worker ... I just felt really bad when he sort of knew more about me that what I'd told him. Like things that had happened and you know, personal opinions that are coming from workers and I think that's wrong when workers decide to, sort of, you know, give their personal opinions about that child or that kid's behaviour.
- That's why you don't tell your social worker nothing. (Ascot Vale TF)
- Yeah, when I started school I didn't want them to know I was in the system and somehow they found out and I was told by my coordinator that in my school they've had plenty of people from the system at that school and they'd all caused trouble and if I caused any trouble she was going to be right behind me. I've done like little things like go to school out of uniform and I'd get like so many detentions after school whereas you'd only get one, just because of who I am. (Ascot Vale TF)
- Quite a couple of times, when I was a ward of the state, being at the office so much you'd hear. They'd all just be standing around maybe in the tea room or something and they'd be talking . And they know damn well you're in there making a milo or something and they just don't give a shit. You find out about [who was] doing such and such. Because you're that young, I mean eleven or whatever, you'd go running to your mate and say "well this and that's happened" not sort of realising because you're at that age where you think "Oh well, pity". That's how it is, you've got not confidentiality. (Parkville TF)
- Researcher: What do you think about client confidentiality?
- That's bullshit. That is a hundred percent bullshit.
- Researcher: What do you mean by that?
- Because right, I'm near the security phone, the cleaned up CSV, up in the Geelong office and they got all my files ... ...
- Researcher: So you don't think that there is confidentiality?
- There's not.
- No, it's a heap of shit.
- Researcher: Do you think that there should be in every case?
- Yes.
- Yes.
- Yes in every single case.
- Researcher: You say that workers should be able to ring and talk to the social worker and there should be an exchange of information about young people.
- That's a bit humiliating, everyone knowing, I know when I walk in there, it's like, do all these people know about me. Like it's okay with one, but then there's a whole group of them.
- I walk in there and my social worker goes - this is R's daughter, and everyone just goes - ooh. It makes you feel humiliated.
- Researcher: Who else has had that sort of experience?
- Yes, I was involved with the policing squad in Melbourne at Russell Street, right and that was meant to be a confidential, not even meant to tell H&CS down here and then one day my social worker turns around and asks me a question about it and I freaked out and they, every social worker that's with CSV in Geelong know about that and that's wrong, they should not know anything, they shouldn't even know I'm involved I don't think. ...
- I went into a placement, a house you know and it was straight away - "Do you want tell about your background? You don't have to." I didn't want to but I couldn't turn and go "No I don't want to tell her" because it just sounds rude.
- Researcher: Who else had the kind of experience?
- I went to a place once with CSV worker and she turns around and she goes "Tell them your background." I turned around and went "mmmm - I'm not telling nobody nothing until I'm ready."
- Researcher: What was her reaction to that?
- My social worker just sort of looked through me and goes "Okay ... do what you like." (Geelong TF)
Information that emerged in Court was also mentioned as indicative of perceived breaches of confidentiality.
- Researcher: Do you think that ... So you had a concern about confidentiality and about who found out about certain bits of information there or ...?
- Well I found out a lot of stuff like, that I never knew before in that court case, because oh a lot of stuff that was brought out and a lot of stuff like my social worker ... ... ... I never told her, I never told nobody and you know.
- Researcher: Does anybody else have an experience like that? Where in court a whole lot of stuff came out that you didn't know about?
- Mmmmm
- Researcher: Yeah, you did?
- Yeah, it's always like that.
- The social workers know more about you than what you know about yourself. (Ascot Vale TF)
Fear of being removed from home
Here is a selection of quotes which reflect young people's fear of being removed from home into state care:
- We're told "Don't tell the teacher because they'll report you then we'll go to gaol and then you'll have all these horrible things happen to you."
- Researcher: What else? Can you repeat that, D what you said?
- The parents could tell them. Like, say, Dad's come home drunk one night and bashed up his son or whatever, the parents tell them "Don't tell the teacher because if you tell the teacher then you'll go to gaol" and [the parents] make up all these stories about how bad it is if they're reported. (Broadmeadows G.)
- I think that would stop most young kids from doing it I think, because of their parents and that. Like they might still love their parents and everything but if they belt them up or do other things to them, they still might be afraid because they're still their parents and that. That's what they're thinking.
- Researcher: Do you think they fear of what's going to happen if they...
- Yeah. They might think that just because the parents are belting [them], they might go to [a named central institution] or something. (Bendigo TM).
- Because then, you know you might like something to happen. Maybe you don't want to split up with your family but you just want counselling or something.
- Researcher: What sort of things do you think young people are actually afraid of?
- Accommodation. Like when they're going into hostels and that you know. Like because I suppose if they were 'wards' of the state they'd be put in hostel for not living with their parents. (Fitzroy TF)
- You go and tell them and they take you away.
- Researcher: So that means that there must be a bad reputation about the department ....
- Being taken away.
- Being taken away by strangers.
- Not knowing where they are.
- Researcher: Not knowing where who are.
- Yeah, like when they get taken away by strangers, they don't know where they're going to go or they don't know what these people are going to do. (Noble Park T Mixed)
- Yeah, I've heard once they've got you, they've got you for life and they can control your life and I've been in it, and that's what exactly what they do. Once, once you know, they can get you fucking locked up like that, you do anything wrong and they can put you away. They can send you where you don't want to go, once they've got you, they've got you. (Kensington TM)
- Researcher: How do you think it's going to impact on adolescents, on peple in your age group?
- A lot of the children are going to lose their faimilies and that.
- Researcher: Do you think a lot of young people think that?
- I do reckon a lot of people do think that. (Traralgon TM)
- Coming back to this law here, I reckon it will work if CSV didn't take the kids away from home and they had at least like someone once a week, or twice, three times a week to go see how the family's going , right, so I mean, it will work. Besides taking them away from home they can leave them there, just have a worker come up, just like a friend and come up and help.
- Researcher: What is support?
- Like just talk to them and care for them, but not like care for them in the way of taking them away. (Traralgon TM)
Fear Of Recriminations by Family Members And Others
Young people's fear of recrimination from family members was expressed in terms of a fear that the abuse would get worse when parents found out about a disclosure. Some spoke from personal experience or that of a friend.
- That's something everyone always thinks about: what if they come back and get you? They will come back and get you. Like my friend, she used to come to school with black eyes and everything and she lived with her mum and her mum abused her; she lived with her dad, her dad abused her and she had no one left. She dobbed them both in and she had to go back and live with her dad and he abused her worse, so everything just goes around in circles. (Knox G)
- Yes. That might stop [young people] though, like threats from their parents. Just say the kid was getting belted up and that, the kid just said what I said or something else, the parents might say "Look you do that and I'll come back and get you or belt you up" or something like that. (Bendigo TM)
- Some parents might be overbearing and say "Don't tell anyone otherwise I'll hit you more, don't go out saying things about your sisters. What's going on in the family, it's no one else's business." They're afraid of their parents, they don't want their parents to get into trouble because the parents will just straight away turn around and thump them. (Swan Hill G)
- It's got to be acted on quickly because if it happens and they dob them in, like a dad beating up on a child and the mother told somebody like CSV, then the father might start beating up on the wife as well and it's got to be acted on quickly so he can't do that. (Knox G)
- Like if the police come around to their house, it's when the police leave, that's when the kids got the problem. (Leongatha G)
- They make you feel a traitor because you've dobbed in your parents or whatever for physical or sexual abuse, they think "Oh you're a traitor so we don't really need you as a brother or sister any more, just keep away." (St Kilda G)
- I had a friend from school whose teacher reported because she came to school with bruises... ... and like they reported it, got investigated, like the truth was she only got into a fight the day before that, after school but they reported it and they didn't believe her about the story about the fight and like they discovered you know that she was telling the truth... ... and now she's having problems at home because her family think that she made up that story and got herself bashed up so it gives her any excuse for some kind of attention... ... (Ascot Vale TF)
- I know this kid and he used to be my friend and anyway his dad kept belting him that, so one time he ran away, like the parents didn't really know why he ran away, but they, well they just didn't want to believe why he ran away and well, they went and tried to find him and everything, like they came around to my house and they started abusing the shit out of me, asking where he was and that ... ...
- Researcher: Did he get involved with the department?
- Yeah, but he wouldn't go do it himself. He kept running away and anyway he went and stayed at a friend of mine and he went and stayed at his house and oh one time when the kid who was getting belted and that, when he went out from my friends house, my friends mum rang up and got them in, anyway the cops came around and everything like that, so it took someone else to do it. He was too afraid to do it.
- Researcher: Why was he afraid?
- Because his dad's a psyche [psycho] and that. Do you know what his dad was like? Like if you say a word to him, he just twigs and chases you with a gun and everything.
- Sounds like the kid probably had schizophrenia or something like that.
- Researcher: So he was afraid of his parents? Of his old man? He was too afraid to do anything because he was too afraid of his old man?
- Yes and I think that would stop most young kids from doing it I think, because of their parents and that. Like they might still love their parents and everything but if they belt them up or do other things to them, they still might be afraid because they're still their parents and that, that's what their thinking. (Bendigo TM)
- Researcher: Do you think that young people should be told about mandatory reporting before they go and discuss abuse with people?
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
- Researcher: Do you think that that would stop some young people from talking about their abuse, if they knew that it was going to get them involved with the department?
- Yeah, probably.
- Researcher: Strongly, or you kind of think that...
- Yeah, if some kid knew that his story was going to like, just say that a kid, or a guy or a girl in their early teens or whatever is getting sexually abused by their dad and the mum didn't know what was going on and it was only between the dad and the daughter what was happening, you know, and if it come out, that'd split the dad and the mum up and then the rest of the family would be like, what the fuck's going on? You know what I mean and that would be like a put off for the person sort of. Or if I say that it's going to come out and then mum's going to know and then, maybe I should just keep my mouth shut. You know what I mean?
- Researcher: So in that situation, given that example, how should it be handled? How can the problem be solved for the young person?
- I don't know. (Reservoir TM)
5. Young people's needs when disclosing abuse
- Researcher: Does anybody know about what rights you have in this system?
- No.
- No. (Bendigo G)
Participants provided a variety of comments regarding perceptions of the needs of young people when disclosing abuse. When asked what young people need following a disclosure of abuse, all but one group responded that young people require input into any decisions made following disclosure. In targeted focus groups particularly, this theme dominated discussion.
The need for trust in the person receiving a disclosure was the next most frequently mentioned need. This theme often included statements about confidentiality and the need for consistency in workers.
A need for information was the next most frequent need theme. Young people said that in order for young people to have an active say, accurate information should be provided to young people. General focus groups were more concerned about the issue of information provision than targeted focus groups.
The need for workers to maintain long term relationships with young people was a particular focus of targeted sample groups. This was often expressed in terms of a need for workers to "hang in there" with young people through any official processes.
Input into what happens
- Kids aren't given a fair hearing you know, they're not listened to. (Doncaster G)
The issue of young people's perceptions of their need to play an active role in their protection warrants careful attention. Participants made a range of statements regarding the importance of young people's right to be heard and to have their wishes respected.
- Yeah. They should choose like if they want to go to a foster home or to a youth hostel or whatever. Because if they go somewhere they don't want to, then they could just turn back to their previous kind of life. (Broadmeadows G)
- Young people should definitely have a choice in the procedure and everything and when the police are involved when the person wants to press charges against the offender. It is their future so they should have some input in what happens and restraining orders against the offender, whether they come in time. (Springvale G)
- I don't know, I think, maybe it's the way I've been brought up with my brothers but they knew exactly what was going on and like, my little brother is eleven and my other brother is twelve and they knew exactly what was going on. Like they sat in a park for three hours before, planning what they'd say to CSV because they wanted out, they needed help and they just wanted out. (St Kilda G)
- I think it's wrong in a way because it's taking, your just starting to get a little bit of control in your life and if you've got all these people stepping in all the time doing the work for you, they know you're going to grow up having, like if there's no one there like, because you've got to learn, that's the stage where you're just starting to learn to step out if something is wrong. (Geelong TF)
Participants distinguished differences between children and young people under this theme of self determination:
- Whoever's offending on them, they might say, you know, "This is what happens to everyone"...really young children, they wouldn't know that it's the wrong thing so, I don't know, it's different. (Broadmeadows G)
- Well they've [teenagers] had more to do with their parents for starters. They know what it was like with their parents first and then they're being moved from their, you know. They might be abused or something but still they want to stay with their parents because they've grown up with their parents, they want to be with their parents. (Doncaster G)
- I think that teenagers are more confused than children, because children don't really understand what's going on whereas teenagers, they can see what's going on but they might still be very confused about it. (Knox G)
- I don't think anyone would like anyone just going off and making the decision for you. That's just totally wrong. That's part of being a person, making your own decisions. It's alright for little kids, yeah I'd go for it with the younger people but not for our age I don't think.
- Researcher: Is that because you think the system is bad? Or is that because ...?
- I don't think the system is bad, but I think it's just part of having control of your life and being able to make your own decisions. That's learning how to be an adult.
- No, but you've got to learn when to act like an adult. (Geelong TF)
- I think everybody can say what they want to do, whether it be the right thing or not, but I mean, at least for the younger people, they get to say what they like and the social workers or CSV [H &CS] can take into consideration. whereas the twelve to sixteen or whatever can actually say "I don't want to go here" and so they don't get put there. (Leongatha G)
Many participants in both targeted and general groups commented on their experience or received accounts of young people feeling they have not been listened to in the protective system. It was also clear that they considered experience of not being heard by workers in other circumstances a good guide to young people's lack of capacity for input at the investigative stage of the system.
- One thing like I've had, like I've seen, is kids where CSV has said to them "You're going on a holiday without your mum and dad" you know and so they're sort of like - "Well when am I going home? When the holiday ending?" And it just doesn't. (Doncaster G)
- I don't know, it just seems that when you get caught up in this system, things get taken away from you. Which is usually, you know, the right to be heard. I mean, you know, we sort of just get washed up with what's going on, it's just the way it happens. (Doncaster G)
- I was having like access meetings with my parents at [a named office of] CSV. and it was hard for my parents to travel there because it was straight after school and they had to pick up my little brothers and sisters who went to primary school over this way and then they had to come all the way back here. Sometimes they couldn't make it at the exact time, so I only had half an hour to see them. I was just seeing them every 2 weeks and sometimes they couldn't make it, so once every 3 or 4 weeks or something I would get to see them and I wanted them to make the access more often. ... So I sort of stood up for myself and said "I want to see them once a week at least" and they said "Yeah, okay". And they didn't do anything about it, I was all alone, I felt all alone, no-one was trying to help me. (Springvale G)
- They don't get enough choice, as in the person involved, they don't get any choice in the police procedures, their choice is taken away sort of half way through that due process thing. They need like a safety guard for when they, when they are talking with their parents present sort of thing and they are the people involved when they shouldn't be. (Springvale G)
- Researcher: Should H & CS be told.
- No.
- No.
- No.
- Researcher: Why don't you think they should be told?
- Because they step in straight away. Because they've got to go by the books. If they don't go by the books then their...
- And they don't build up a relationship first normally the CSV workers, they just go 'boom' your're in...placement or wherever, that's it, they'll see you next time. They don't build up a proper relationship. (Geelong TF)
- Yeah, that's right. I couldn't have my say. That whole meeting was for me to decide if I, they think it's fair or what, if I should have another twelve months on my thing [order]. I still have it. Case Planning, I had my 'Ward of the State' extended for another twelve months. I didn't get a say at all, I just sat there, I had no rights whatsoever. I couldn't even fucking scratch me balls or bite my fingernails. (Parkville TM)
- I reckon it's impossible - they will never let us have a say. (Parkville TM)
- It's the same, like you know, it's the same like kids, you know, they're not allowed to say anything. It's like, you know, children should be seen but not heard, you know, it's just silly. You know, they think we know Jack-shit, but we know. (Kensington TM)
- CSV think that we don't know nothing.
- Yeah, that we don't know anything.
- Yeah, I mean I've been in this longer than my social worker and she thinks she knows more than me.
- Yeah, they all think they're mister know it alls, you know?
- Researcher: Anybody else think that?
- Yeah.
- Yes.
- You can't tell them nothing, they go "No, no, no, that's not right, I am right", you know?
- Researcher: What sort of things would they disagree with you about where you say,
- Like say I was going really well at this joint and they go, "No you weren't, no you weren't" and they move you to another joint and I go, "Yes I was, and they go, "No, listen to me", like that, (Traralgon TM)
- It's very hard because - you think - with the case planning meeting there's you, your mum and just the worker, it makes you feel uncomfortable. [It's] very uncomfortable when you've got police, when you've got head of CSV that sits in with you.
- You can't say nothing about CSV then.
- It makes it very, very uncomfortable and you can't talk about anything. (Traralgon TM)
- When you do a case plan, basically CSV are the ones that are putting all the words into your mouth and basically what we say to them like, we'll give you an example. Okay, you feel safe at this placement right, this is in a case plan meeting, they go right on to the opposite and they say the opposite to what you said. (Traralgon TM)
- They should give you more of a choice, not just say "you're going to do this - you're going to do this, etc". They should compromise a few and say, you know, because like you say something and they just go totally against what they said because they think they're so good, you know. (Traralgon TM)
- Researcher: Did you feel like you get a hearing in case planning meetings?
- What do you mean?
- Researcher: Do you think you get to put your views up and they are heard?
- No. No, we don't.
- I did, I said everything even if they didn't want me to say anything, I said everything that was on my mind and everything that I wanted to say.
- Researcher: And you are shaking your head?
- No, but the judgment, I mean, if it's your case...
- You're supposed to say like what you want to happen and stuff and I think, because they wrote all these notes and everything, I think they've already made their judgment on what is going to happen to the kid before they've even told you. Do you know what I mean, like even when you say, I don't think that should happen, it's too late, like it's on a piece of paper and they've already signed it, it's not going to change. I mean if you say, I don't want to go there, and it's on the piece of paper that you're going there, it's too late to say where you want to go now, they've already made their decisions. (Ascot Vale TF)
- You do, you turn into a number mate. You go from being say, a person with two or three names and then you just turn into a number. You know, they've got on, like you don't even, it's like you're not human any more mate. You're a client, you're not a kid, you're a client or you know ...
- [They] treat you like shit, you're nothing.
- Yeah, they sort of ... it's like, there's another one on the list, we'll put his file at the back of the filing cabinet and when he's got a problem we'll deal with it, then fuck him. That's what they're like. (Reservoir TM)
- Because when I was involved with CSV, it was just like they want to get it over with.
- Researcher: What they want to get what over with?
- Like get it out of the way so they can go on to the next case, do you know what I mean?
- Researcher: They want to deal with the problem quickly?
- Yes, just like, it's like everything you say goes over their heads because in their minds they already know what they're going to do with you. Like as soon as they meet you it's just like - oh yeah, we'll stick her here or put her or whatever. Do you know what I mean?
- Researcher: Who else agrees with that?
- That's what I'm just saying about my opinion, I'm not saying it happens to everyone.
- Researcher: So, what do people think about that?
- I don't fully agree with that, only half because some workers just don't care and clients are clients, you know it's their job to, they see it as their job to help somebody and so they'll do their job, then they'll move on. Like they won't put any feelings into it you know. (Fitzroy TF)
Young people's need for trust
Participants provided a range of responses regarding the need for young people to have trust in the person to whom they are disclosing abuse. References were frequently made again to the importance of confidentiality:
- Researcher: Can you tell us what you think about trust? What allows you to trust someone?
- Whether I can tell, for me, it's whether I can tell someone and they can keep it to themselves if I want them to. Someone who's just going to be there for me all the time you know. (Fitzroy TF)
- Researcher: What do you need to trust a youth worker?
- You need to know that if you tell them that they're not going to tell someone else without your consent. (St Kilda G)
- Researcher: What do young people need to trust a worker?
- Yes, they're trusting them to know that they won't tell anyone else or like that, what they've just told them, that's what they tell them in confidence ... ... they it want to be kept like a secret I suppose... (Swan Hill G)
As noted earlier, for young people in rural areas, it appeared that the issues of trust and confidentiality were particularly critical:
- There's just no one you're going to be able to, you can't talk to anyone or trust them then if something's happening at home or ... ...
- Researcher: Is that especially so in a small town?
- Yeah, some kids don't know when to keep their mouth shut.
- Not really going to have anyone to trust at all.
- Not really, if you tell someone, like your friend or something, I know if someone told me and I'd want to tell my mum then you'd want something done about it, you wouldn't want to see one of your friends beaten up like that all the time. (Swan Hill G)
An on-going relationship with at least one worker was suggested as an important aid to disclosure.
- Researcher: What sort of things do you think make it easier for young people to talk about being abused?
- They need someone that's supportive, having someone that you know cares and someone that will standby you all the way.
- Researcher: What other things do you think might be important?
- I think it's also up to the person, they've got to feel strong enough with themselves, that's what I found out. (Geelong TF)
- I think if a person's got a problem like that, I think they shouldn't send several different people around to him just the same person, cause if you send someone different every other time, he's going to get madder and madder and think everyone knows and he'll get more angrier and keep doing it. (Leongatha G)
- If you work with a youth worker for a period of time and they keep on asking you - do you want me to report it - after a period of time you might trust them enough to tell them - yeah, alright you can report it. (Knox G)
- I've had like about ten different workers and some of them have been for two weeks, three weeks or ... ... when they pass you on, you have to explain all your life situation again and then by the time you're about fifteen the whole CSV knows your life story. (Parkville TF)
Many young people also mentioned the dangers of not having a worker they can trust, or of the consequences of losing trust in a worker.
- 'Cause they won't talk to them again if they find that they've broken their trust so they won't go back to them again. They'll get abused and abused and they won't want to talk to anyone if somebody's already broken their trust. (Leongatha G)
- Letting them know how they feel and things like that and if they're not going to be able to have that trust they won't bother speaking. (Swan Hill G)
- You should get someone else, like if they don't want to tell the youth worker, then you should get someone else to try and talk to them, like their friends or a relative or someone that they will tell. (Knox G)
- It's like - oh, [if the worker says] "I've got to cut it short today because your time's runs out, come back tomorrow" it's like they don't really care about me so I won't come back tomorrow. (Richmond G)
Need for careful assessments
One further area of data concerned speculation from some groups that young people would lie about abuse to escape family conflict:
- Because they're mature adults, you know, I mean the kids could just be doing it just to get out of home and get money and get attention.
- Researcher: Do you think young people do, do it for attention?
- Sometimes yes.
- Some do.
- Yes.
- Some do.
- Yes.
- Researcher: Why, why would you think that?
- Because that ...
- Or they can't cope.
- Researcher: What can't they cope with?
- Stress and that. (Leongatha G)
On further prompting, young people tended to suggest that this desire for attention may well be indicative of other family conflicts:
- My sister went to CSV and she had no reason really and she just went and she complained to them about dad hitting her and that. He never did really, but he just ... She was lying and she was doing to get attention because she ... ... she couldn't cope with school and she couldn't cope with things like that.
- Researcher: Do you always think it's for attention?
- No.
- Yeah, one or two is for attention but there mostly for a couple of things.
- Well some of them around our age would just do it so they can get out of home, they might not like the home environment, they might just want to live out of home so they can just experience a free life without your parents.
- Because when you've got your parents, you get grounded and all that you can't go out some nights and that and teenagers these days, they just want to go out all the time.
- Researcher: Do you think that a young person would like going from their home environment into that system?
- No.
- Not really.
- It depends. It depends on what's going on to make them want to leave and it depends on the individual. It depends how they feel I guess. (Leongatha G)
- Researcher: Why do you think they'd lie about it for attention?
- Because [there's] not enough love in the family. (Geelong TF)
It was also suggested that young people may appear as though they are untruthful because they are trying to minimise their abuse or protect the abuser.
- Often the way they're lying isn't hiding the truth but they're exaggerating as well.
- Researcher: What do you mean by that?
- Well might lie in one way by exaggerating the truth by saying a lot happened but in opposite cases they'd say nothing happened, like - I fell down the stairs.
- Researcher: Do you think that happens a lot?
- Yeah.(Geelong TF)
- Others might lie to hide actual things that are happening because they're too scared ... ... the consequences and things that are going to happen to them if someone does find out.
- Say if their dad's abusing them and they don't want anything to happen to their dad, they might say, "my uncle's abusing me."
- Researcher: So they would actually lie about the actual abuse?
- They just lied to see what would happen to the person who is actually abusing them. (Knox G)
- Sometimes with my sister, when she told about hers, she, at the start, she had enough courage to do it and then in the end because she wanted to keep friends with the family, she lied and so - no, it didn't happen to her. So you can't really go on that. (Geelong TF)
6. Young people's recommendations for the implementation of mandatory reporting.
As will be clear from the previous extracts, participants' comments often carried the implication of recommendations about the implementation of mandatory reporting. To aid the collection of this kind of data, the final section of focus groups involved reflecting on some of the themes which had arisen during the group and young people were asked to make recommendations for the implementation of mandatory reporting.
Young people commented widely and drew a variety of agents into their recommendations. There were recommendations made by participants that were not confined to the primary purpose of the study. Targeted groups took the opportunity to critique their experiences of the Children's Court and post-court service aspects of protective services.
In terms of mandatory reporting per se, the central focus of this report, young people's primary recommendations focussed upon: the need for information including the nature of information they recommended, and how it should be disseminated; the implications of disclosure, including the capacity to have choices in the protective process; and the ambit of mandatory reporting laws. These are discussed below.
Need for information
Participants complained about their lack of access to reliable and accurate information sources geared to them and suggested a range of media for spreading information. Schools were a favoured source and media forms featured prominently.
- No, there's no information around that I know of. Like they should have publicity stuff and like something saying you know, that you're going to be okay with you know, people here to help you and people aren't so scared about reporting it because they are. (Ascot Vale TF)
- When I was in year seven we had pastoral care as a subject and we did a part on personal behaviours or safety or something like that and I think most schools have got a program like that in year seven, it could be covered in that. (Broadmeadows G)
- Maybe some brochure or something should be let out to adolescents or whatever to just explain what mandatory, whatever you call it, is and then like just say what the choices are so they know what steps to take if it is happening to them or a friend or whatever. (Broadmeadows G)
- Researcher: What about, where'd she get those M...talking about pamphlets and stuff?
- Hospital. Or CSV.
- Researcher: Yeah, anywhere else?
- Yes, Social Security. (Bendigo TM)
- I think they should do more things with the schools and that so that all the teenagers and that understand. Like when I came here, I didn't understand what was going to happen, I think they should, the youth workers at the school go around to the classes and explain, if you've got sexual abuse or something like that so the kids understand you know, what will happen.
- Researcher: Where else should young people get that information from? You mentioned schools as one place.
- The schools.
- Television not very much good because they go on with big words and that and some of that.
- Researcher: What other sorts of information do you think young people would be able to get at? Where else do you think younger people should get access to information from?
- I reckon they should have pamphlets and stuff that you could read if you were sitting in the doctor's surgery.
- Places like that.
- Researcher: Where else?
- Dentists.
- Researcher: Where else? Where else should stuff like that be available? You said train stations and doctor's surgeries. What would you want to tell young people about that system before they, what information do you think they should know, like about how the system works?
- The information you tell the people isn't going to be kept confidential because they need to know that. (Fitzroy TF)
There was mention of the manner in which rumours fill the information vaccuum.
- Researcher: Do you think that young people have enough information available to be able to make decisions about when something should happen and when it's okay to just talk about something?
- No, I reckon like people like you should go around to schools and that and talk to classes.
- Researcher: What do other people think about that?
- All rumours get around.
- Researcher: Rumours? Tell us about some of the rumours you think that get around?
- Like things that, because of this, you know, a lot of people haven't heard about this thing and so other things get around like this, you've got to tell this sort of person or no one knew, like that. (Fitzroy TF)
The value of "live presentations" was also discussed. It will be recalled that a number of groups mentioned young people as each other's source of information. One group specifically recommended the use of peer education to disseminate information about the child and adolescent protection system:
- I reckon they should get people like fifteen or sixteen off the street and give them a little bit of training so they can talk to the kids.
- Researcher: Who should do that?
- Community service people should be able to train them, so they could talk to people their own age.
- Researcher: Do you think they have enough workers to do something like that?
- No.
- Nup.
- No.
- Have a training course for it or something.
- When they do that, they can sort of come their friend and maybe they'll do the right thing.
- Like get someone off the streets and train them and they know what they're talking about. (Leongatha G)
This suggestion met with approval in another group.
- Researcher: Other groups have said, with things like that you know, that young people listen to other young people and take in that information and then they, you know, at the time they think that true. Do you think that's right? Would you agree with that?
- Yep.
- Yes.
- Yeah I would.
- Some of them, some would. (Bendigo TM)
Another group of participants suggested the need for a telephone service available to provide accurate legal and referral information to assist young people in making well informed decisions:
- Yeah, like if they look, you know, where you can ring up or something and then they, like if they don't get involved, because I don't think it's right for them to just walk in and drag you out, like if they have a whatever you call, a hot-line or something and you them up it up if you need help. (Noble Park T Mixed)
One of the groups suggested television media but it would seem that language can be a barrier.
- Researcher: Where do you think young people get their information from?
- The news.
- Friends.
- Schools.
- Researcher: Where else?
- From your friends. Television. T.V. a little bit not a lot because it's not really advertised a lot.
- Yeah.
- A little bit, like they bring out a lot of movies now about people who've been abused and stuff like that. But they need to bring out like, kids shows about abuse, about like sexual abuse because you can't expect an eight year old to sit there and watch a movie about someone being abused, because they just, they wouldn't pick it up as much as an older kid would. so maybe if they told more younger kids about...
- It depends how smart the eight year old is too. See, because if it's advertised too much then eight year olds say - oh, this has happened to me. But it really hasn't... ..."(Geelong TF)
- Television not very much good because they go on with big words and that and some of that. (Fitzroy TF)
The implications of disclosure
- I don't think that now they should be allowed to say "don't be afraid to tell". Because of course kids are going to be afraid to tell. If they tell a youth worker who's mandatory reporting, of course they're going to be afraid to tell, because whoever is doing it to them is going to get into trouble and they're going to be really afraid and so it shouldn't be right to say to kids "oh look, don't be afraid to tell" because of course they're going to be afraid to tell. (Knox G)
Participants placed importance on young people's need to have input into the process of protection from various early stages. It was suggested that young people should be counselled about the formal implications of their disclosure before disclosing:
- They should give us some advice, go over the law system with us to start off with, what we should do first and then let us make up our own minds whether we want to report it or let it go. (Traralgon TM)
- ...a social worker should explain it straight away to the little kids and give them a choice because sometimes it really fucks your life up and sometimes it doesn't. (Geelong TM)
- Researcher: Specifically, this whole thing is about mandatory reporting, given that it's going to be coming into effect, what sorts of thing can you recommend to make mandatory reporting okay for young people aged twelve to sixteen?
- They'd tell the young person that it's going to be reported.
- Researcher: When should they tell them?
- Straight away.
- And try to explain what's going to happen to them and don't try to make out that everything is going to be alright and that you're going to be sweet and explain that you're going to get taken away from home, where you're going to and how, at least get shown what it's going to be like, not just chucked in and left there for a few nights and then taken to another place. (Parkville TF)
- Researcher: What sorts of information do you think young people who aren't involved with the system, what do you think they know?
- Nothing until they do get involved.
- No they should make you ...
- What's going to happen when they do get involved.
- I don't know.
- Researcher: So they should know what could happen to them?
- Yes.
- Yes.
- Researcher: Do you think that when young people have that information, that will stop them from talking about their abuse because they will be even more scared of getting involved?
- No. (Noble Park T Mixed)
- Researcher: What would you want to tell young people about that system before they - what information do you think they should know, like about how the system works?
- The information you tell the people isn't going to be kept confidential because they need to know that.
- Researcher: So what does that mean? And what should they know about the system so that they can....
- If whatever you're saying is true and there will be help.
- Researcher: If they should know that it's going to be reported to the department, what should they be told about what's going to happen then?
- It's going to be reported to the department and that they could be put on an order and there will be an investigation throughout the family or wherever it's happening and that there's a chance that they go to court through it. To be put on an order.
- Researcher: What else should they be told about the investigation?
- That they would be asked questions, pretty personal questions and that. It wouldn't be easy. (Fitzroy TF)
- I just think it will be most important that, like young people generally are made to understand that just because it gets reported, doesn't mean that they're going to be taken out of home straight away, so they realise that it's not necessarily as serious as they think. (Bendigo G)
- But maybe they should also be told before they're allowed to tell, the child should be reassured about what's actually going to happen when they're dobbed in. Because kids will be going - oh well they're going to dob my dad in, what's going to happen to me, what am I going to do, I've got no one to live with, I can't go anywhere, they should have to sit them down and say - there will be people who will still look after you, even though we are taking your father away.
- Researcher: So you're talking about the need to...?
- So that theiy're not sort of afraid of this whole thing which they think is going to happen. (Knox G)
Focus groups also made recommendations about greater involvement in how investigation occurs and the exercise of rights.
- Researcher: Does anybody know about what rights you have in this system?
- No.
- No. (Bendigo G)
- ...I think they [young people] should have more say in whether legal action should be taken further. (Springvale G)
- Researcher: What else do you think that they need information about?
- What their rights are and what will happen to them. Personally I haven't seen these things before and I was shocked to see it. Children don't have the right to say what will happen to them... (Richmond G)
- We should get asked before anyone gets told (Bendigo TF)
- Would confidentiality come into that? I feel that they don't have a right to go into certain areas that you don't wish to pursue, whatever that word is, I can't say it. Stuff like that, they should, I feel that they should not have a right to go speak to him, Joe Blow about that, at their fucking coffee shop meeting. Discuss what they've discussed in their fucking meeting. Which is my life, instead of just having some fucking gossip over coffee. You know, things like that. (Parkville TM)
- The right to say, like in the investigation, when they're asking people they think could be witnesses or would have known about it, if that person doesn't want them to question someone, for such a reason, they could say, that they don't want the police or the investigators to go to that person. (Broadmeadows G)
- Unless under a certain age, but even their opinion or, it should be taken into account like where they want to go, like, not necessarily that they actually make the decision but it should be considered where they say they want to go. (Bendigo G)
- I think theyshould speak to the person that it was contacted about. Say I was being sexually abused. They should come and see me about talking to anyone about it like friends or family.
- All they should tell you first is who they're going to tell and who they're going to speak to, before you say anything at all
- Researcher: So young people should know and have choices?
- They should know what's going to happen, because when you're back's turned they could ring up your parents and that - they should say what they're going to say before they do it, do you know what I mean? Because you have to talk to the person, what's happening to the person, before you go out and do all these moves. (Leongatha G)
- Researcher: Do you think there's any way they could change the investigation to make it easier?
- Yes, yes During the investigation they say stuff like, you know, "it won't leave this room". It does.
- Researcher: So do you think there's a responsibility for H&CS to guarantee your confidentiality?
- Mean what they say, not just take it for granted and telling eveyone. (St Kilda G)
It was further suggested that young people need a chosen 'outsider', to be actively involved with young people as they progress through the investigation and subsequent intervention pursued by protective services:
- Yeah, you need someone whose sort of not really involved in the actual, like a sort of a mediator in a way.
- Researcher: Some other groups have said that. We'd be interested to know what you think about that idea some more.
- Well maybe a youth worker or a social worker, I don't know, whose not actually with the department.
- Researcher: What sort of thing, thinking about the qualities of the person, what sort of qualities should that person have?
- Easy to speak to.
- Non-threatening.
- Someone whose not going to come into it and sort of, is going to keep an open mind about it and try and see it from both sides. (Bendigo G)
- Young people need someone, an adult or a friend to be available for them when involved in the system. (Bendigo TM)
- I find that only people that listen to you is the people that understand you and been there and done it.
- True. It's true. That have been through it.
- I can talk to my uncle about all this because he's been there, he's been, you know, nearly all the prisons. My uncle has been through all the shit and everything. (Parkville TM)
- Researcher: Some other groups have talked about the need to get people involved in the system who aren't employed by H&CS, who you can trust, who young people can trust, that will help them bring their views into any of the decision making processes that there are there... where an outside person can help you, can talk on your behalf and help you get the things that you want.
- Yeah, I get what you mean.
- Researcher: Yeah? Do you think that's needed?
- Yeah.
- Very much. Very much so. (Reservoir TM)
Approaching the issue of rights in another way, some participants recommended removing the abuser instead of the young person from home:
- Yes. Yes. They should be taking the person who offended in the first place out then the child still has, the adolescent still has, the protection of it's home. If you take it out of its home then it's got nothing. (St Kilda G)
- Researcher: And what about the difference between taking the child from the home? I heard a lot of people say that they think the offender should be taken from the home.
- Yes.
- Yes.
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
- Because then it's taking them away from, like its saying that they're the ones who are wrong not the ... ...
- Yeah. Yeah.
- It would be putting the focus on them, that they're the ones who are doing wrong, not the child.
- Some suffer with the guilt or anxiety or whatever.
- Beause a lot of kids think it's like - "I've done something wrong and so that's why it's happening." Yeah I know.
- Yeah.
- Why should the kid ... ... his life becuase of his parents' actions. (Doncaster G).
- If the situation is really bad they should put a restraining order of the person who is abusing the kid.
- Young people feel pretty bad when they get taken out of the home.
- It's pretty bad if the parent chooses the other parent over the child.
- A lot of kids don't know what its happening is wrong, they think it is their fault. (Burwood TF)
The ambit of mandatory reporting laws
As extracted earlier in this chapter, many young people recommended that young people in older age groups should not be included in mandatory reporting laws but that it was sometimes acknowledged that there were circumstances required action not in keeping with their wishes
- What I said before about different ages the younger kids like say under ten yeah, but for the older ones I suppose it's up to them because their starting to be able to have a little bit of control in their lives and I think their able to come out and say it when their ready, it would be easier. But for the little ones, it's different. (Geelong TF)
- Researcher: Are there situations where young people should be involved with the Department even though they really want the department to piss off out of their lives?
- Yes, because like if you didn't have the department then you'd probably be living on the streets, you'd be hungry.
- Also if it's not safe for you to live at home, like if you are...or something. (Noble Park TMixed)
Discussions in some groups about categories of mandated workers found that young people saw value in having professions that were not mandated to report. General groups in made particular comments with respect to youth workers.
- Not everyone should be mandated because we need to talk to people who do not have to report. (Bendigo TF)
- Researcher: Do you think teachers should be mandated, or youth workers?
- Youth workers shouldn't be mandated. ...
- I think there should be some type of counsellor or something that you could go to that doesn't have to, that's not mandated, like teachers and stuff should be but someone that you could just confide in and explain that isn't mandated. (Leongatha G)
- Researcher: So who do you think should be mandated?
- Doctors. Teachers. Not youth workers.
- No, not youth workers. Because they're someone to go to if your in trouble.
- Researcher: If you take the youth workers away there's not one to go to?
- Exactly. No one talks to the social workers ...
- I think youth workers should be mandated with teachers. They should be trained more though if they want to be mandated; they should be trained to have to have experience in this situation.
- I think that doctors are mandated and I think that teachers should be mandated as well but not youth workers, because for a lot of people, youth workers are the only people that they can go to if they've got problems and to mandate them would be a big mistake, I think. If they did mandate them, who else could they go to, church leaders perhaps but not youth workers. ...
- If youth workers are going to have [a] mandate, there should be different types of youth workers they can talk because kids aren't going to talk to kids (Knox G)
7. Summary and comment
Knowledge of mandatory reporting
The data clearly point to young people's lack of understanding about mandatory reporting. Like our youth sector worker sample, those who correctly knew that physical and sexual abuse were notifiable grounds, tended to assume that other forms were also to be reported.
The focus group data also indicated that young people were critical of their lack of access to information about mandatory reporting that it was inappropriate that young people had not been consulted before the law was introduced. Some had received information from informal sources but these appeared unreliable or based on personal and often negative accounts. Youth workers were not specifically mentioned as a source of information and this is consistent with our survey findings that indicated more than half felt lacking in competence to explain the scheme (Q17A).
While there are indications that some young people would not have disclosed abuse if mandatory reporting had applied, this seemed a feature of targeted groups with direct experience of the protective services system. The accuracy and validity of their views was not tested in this research. It should not, however, be ignored that young people with experience of protective intervention who may advocate against disclosure are peers of other young people without prior protective services experience; they will be a source of information if accurate alternative material is not otherwise provided to young people at large.
Perceptions of mandatory reporting
Many participants voiced concern and disapproval about mandatory reporting and three-quarters of the groups had participants who warned that it would be a detterent to disclosure. Targeted groups often made reference to negative experiences of protective intervention. The fear of being removed from home loomed large in both general and targeted groups as did opposition to notification without prior consultation with the young person concerned.
There were young people in a number of groups who expressed positive assessments of mandatory reporting- but this was in relation to mandatory reporting as a concept distanced from personal application. Such comments were found in both general and targeted groups. Support waned, however, on the question of whether it should apply to young people of their age with a strong urge for autonomy evident.
We see here an interesting mirroring effect between our youth sector and young people samples in that while both express levels of support for the notion of mandatory reporting, personal application is another matter. Recall here the findings with respect to Q21 of the survey. Despite 50% of the sample agreeing or strongly agreeing that a legal obligation to report was better than individual discretion, nearly three-quarters could envisage envisage a circumstance where they would breach mandatory reporting requirements.
There was no consensus amongst those who did not favour mandatory reporting as to the age at which mandatory reporting should cease to apply. Within a number of focus groups, strident claims to self-determination were tempered with a recognition that there were cases where intervention against the young's person's wishes would be appropriate. This dovetails in an interesting manner with the survey result (Q21b) indicating that youth sector workers do not fear that young people will feel they have been abandoned if a youth sector worker makes a notification.
The circumstances described in young people's quotes approved of intervention against wishes in situations of crisis or where the young person had an intellectual disability. One might also consider that it is not possible to give an adolescent "veto" power in circumstances where there are younger siblings less able to escape or avoid the risk of abuse.
The fear of the consequences which flow from disclosure was a significant theme which emerged. The broad importance of confidentiality was heightened among rural groups conscious of "small town gossip" a finding which was consistent with the Youth Policy Development Council's (1987) observations with respect to health issues. Targeted female groups made specific and critical references to their experience of workers' treatment of sensitive information.
There was frequent comment about the fear that disclosure would lead to removal from home and in the recommendations stage of focus groups, it was suggested that one of the general information needs for young people was an understanding that removal did not necessarily follow. Assurances of this kind are especially fraught in relation to young people's fear of painful family consequences for exposing abuse. This was a theme underpinning a number of young people's jealous guard on how disclosure information is treated. Some young people's comments gave the impression that workers had tried, and were wrong to have tried, to reassure them otherwise.
Young people's assessment of mandatory reporting indicated that they viewed the new scheme as a further situation where their views and wishes will not be given credence. General focus groups stressed the importance of having choices while targeted groups drew frequently on their negative personal experiences at later stages of protective service in saying that they felt decision-making did not value their participation. They seemed acutely aware that it was they who were going to have to live with the situations where professionals decided "at them" not with them.
Information
Young people recommended that there be more information available to them about mandatory reporting. In the recommendations stage of focus groups, their comments were mainly directed towards the sources of information rather than the content. Looking at the focus group data as a whole, it seems to us that their call was two-fold. Firstly, basic information about the new requirements; secondly, in the light of their concerns about the implications of disclosure, they want to know where they will stand and what their rights are if they make a notifiable disclosure.
It is interesting to observe that young people's suggestions for sources of information reflected points of system contact, i.e. health, income security and other formal agency points. There was a noticeable lack of comment in relation to recreation venues or peer-social outlets other than schools which can can themselves be characterised as institutional sources. Youth workers were not featured as a source of information about mandatory reporting, a finding that is consistent with the lack of competence in the area that our survey sample indicated.
Peer methods were recommended in two of the groups and there was also the suggestion of a telephone advice line. These correspond with the suggestions in Wilson (1992) based on a project with sexually abused young men.
One of the criticisms voiced by young people with experience of protective intervention was the number of workers [we assume within H & CS] that they had dealt with. It was also evident in groups that young people lacked information about their rights and felt little capacity to exercise them. It seems that considerations such as these may lie behind young people wanting a self-selected 'outsider' to actively accompany them through the process following notification.
There is, however, no necessary correlation between being trusted by a young person who is considering making a disclosure and having the necessary knowledge of the protective system to act as an effective support. In this respect, the data collated from youth sector worker surveys provides an indication of the relatively low level of knowledge held by persons not yet targeted by H & CS for educational programs. One would expect that potential support persons who have even less contact with the system would feel and be even less capable of providing informed support. Informing the supports selected by young people seems to us an important measure.
Recommendations for the operation of mandatory reporting
The data do not favour the adoption of a rigid rule which excludes a particular age group from mandatory reporting provisions. As noted earlier, the groups presented mixed views. We hear our participants asking for a better balance between professional judgment and autonomy from those who mean to protect them. Young people ask to have the knowledge and confidence to enable, if they choose, to express informed wishes and have those wishes given more weight than is perceived to be currently the case. To the extent that young people accepted that mandatory reporting was a law in force, their recommendations reiterated the importance of advising young people at the outset of the implications of disclosure and for young people to have a stronger say in how investigations are conducted.
The focus group data highlighted young people's emphasis upon trusting relationships as a significant determinant of disclosure and it appeared that for an adult to provide information about rights and the implications and consequences of disclosure was a positive influence on young people's perception of that relationship. This is similar to Brown's (1993) finding and various references to the importance of trust and autonomy among abused and homeless young people in Burdekin (1989).
There were also a number of groups in which young people spoke against youth workers being mandated and this was connected with young people's concern at losing opportunities for confidential discussion. Our reading of data suggests that young people may be under a misapprehension. It seems to us that they were perceiving non-mandated workers as 'safe sponges' for information that they want kept confidential. We do not think that they have been made sufficiently aware of the capacity for voluntary reporting that every member of the community has unless they claim the privilege of priests to their confessors or lawyers to their clients. The data, therefore about young people wanting someone to talk with who will not pass on the information should be considered with this in mind.
